The Sociology of Furry Fandom
-Forward-
©2000, 2001, 2002 - David J. Rust

Basic Definitions and Personal Motivation

Sociology is very much a part of day-to-day life. It is a science that allows us to better understand the communal structures that influence (and are influenced by) individuals. It is even possible to make reasoned conjecture at the underlying principles of human interaction.

There exists a specific subculture of people who are fond of animals in art, literature and film. Even more specifically, there exists a group of such people who exist within the framework of Speculative Fiction Fandom, once known as Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Fandom. Often, members of this specific subculture own pets, volunteer their time to help out in local animal shelters, or otherwise become involved with the animals around them. The primary hallmark of this group of people, however, is their use of anthropomorphization of animals.

Calling themselves "Furries", these people enjoy stories, film, plays and artwork about animals with human characteristics. To be specific, however, a "Furry" can be described as either the actual anthropomorphized animal or -in the nomenclature of the subculture- as the person who finds anthropomorphic animals to be so fascinating. For the purposes of this study, I will be using the first definition of the term: "Furries" meaning the fans, themselves.

The difficulty in researching this group stems from my involvement with it. When a person belongs to a specific organization or group, study often becomes difficult for fear of being too near to the source to make an impartial and scientific judgment. However, I look upon this as a challenge to my academic integrity and plan to pursue this examination with a dispassionate eye.

As a means of introducing myself and my relationship to the Furries, I have been interested in anthropomorphization for most of my life. Since my youth, I have found the myths and legends of Greek Centaurs and Satyrs to be exciting and fun. I've read piles of Greek lore, even going to far as to make Ancient History my specialization for my Bachelor's Degree. I've thrilled to tales of werewolves, chuckled at Wile E. Coyote and Bugs Bunny cartoons, been enraptured by "Watership Down" and enjoyed the numerous novels that have talked about animal-like aliens such as Larry Niven's K'zin.

Over time, thanks to the networking that began first in the subculture of Science Fiction Fandom, SF fans of similar specific interests began finding each other. Furries were no exception. Once enough of them got together to share their meager collections of art, toys and books, conventions and gatherings began to form. Today, nearly a dozen annual conventions are held in North America and Europe with hundreds of web sites, fanzines and publications dedicated to these people who enjoy Anthropomorphic Animals.

As a student of History who specialized in studying the social, political and religious trends of our ancient forebears, I began to wonder how this emerging social group functioned. What were the underlying dynamics and foci that allowed Furries to congregate and flourish? What were their societal traits? What governed their internal interactions? To discover answers to these questions, I began conducting interviews and surveys.

The following is a basic examination of the Furry subculture as enacted by myself over a period of two years. The conclusions drawn are not the only possible interpretations, but they are those that I have come to believe. Clearly, this group of people -to which I do belong- warrants study as would any other social group. This is my scientific attempt to move towards such an understanding.

This web page contains the fruits of those labors.

I would like feedback on its presentation and conclusions. Please feel free to send me email at phantos@visi.com with your critiques. I thank you in advance.

How The Data Was Collected

Several individuals wanted to know more information about how and where I collected the data that was used for this evaluation. When I started, I had just purchased a video camera in the Spring of 1998. The first Furry convention I attended with it was Albany Anthrocon. I spoke to a few people, but didn't conduct any on-camera interviews. I did, however, conduct a small number of surveys. Later conventions where I took such notes were DucKon 1998 (a convention prior to Albany Anthrocon, but it wasn't a Furry Convention ... it was a general interest SF Convention with a large, Furry Track of programming), ConFurence 1999, and Further Confusion 2000. I also conducted personal surveys at local gatherings in Minneapolis; that was as far as I could travel on a limited budget.

Additional research was conducted utilizing the World Wide Web. I took my paper survey and converted it to a web page. I advertised the site in online Furry gathering locations and encouraged them to take the survey. In order to do so, the participant had to register with a legitimate mailing address, real name and identification. Upon doing so, they were issued a unique ID number that allowed them access to the the questions. These unique IDs were created by hand, by myself, and not associated with any particular personal data so as to ensure privacy. By doing this, I was able to ensure that I was getting distinct answers from individuals and thereby reduced the amount of duplication or "ballot-box-stuffing" that some cultural surveys encounter.

To clarify, both the online and paper versions of the survey were conducted only once I had received written confirmation of the person's name and mailing address. Once these were recorded, they were separated from the collated data to prevent violation of privacy. The names and addresses were then used to ensure no duplication occurred at a later point. I got several responses to the online survey that had forged ID numbers, but those results were discarded.

Myths of Furry Fandom

In the subculture of Furry Fandom, there are many presuppositions. "In Furry; 90% of the men are gay", "Everyone in Furrydom is an Atheist", "Furry Fandom is entirely a West-Coast-based phenomenon". These statements comprise the body of common knowledge that I refer to as "Furry Myths". They are perceptual statements based upon the subjective observations of members of the fandom or those around them.

For the purposes of this study, "Myths" are the assumptions and stereotypes -internal and external- that are made about any social group large enough to be classified. Many of these Myths rise from within the group in question but -true to human nature- are not necessarily any more accurate than the observations of an outsider. It is not the intent of this research to catalog all of the Myths but, rather, to present research about Furries and -then- compare them with existing Myths that have been reported by interview subjects.

"Myth" is being defined as "a perceived fact that may or may not be true, but for which there has been no scientific corroboration."

The Sociology of Furry Fandom, a Subculture Study
©2000, 2001, 2002 - David J. Rust

What Furries Do
When asked to catalog those interests that members of this subculture regarded as Furry, five distinct categories emerged. Furry activities were largely restricted to 1.) Collecting Artwork, 2.) Writing/Reading Stories, 3.) Attending Group Gatherings, 4.) Chatting Online in Internet Forums and 5.) Creating Furry Art (including costumes, illustrations, paintings or written stories).

If you dissect each of these social activities, there is a common bond between them and many other social groups. While many social groups and subcultures may not have much of an interest in expressing themselves in stories or visual art, it is not surprising when they do. Group gatherings are fundamental to all subcultures and collecting subculture-specific memorabillia (in this case, artwork) is common -again- in just about every subculture that exists. In fact, the only unusual expression is the inclusion of Internet usage.

This latter addition, so widely spread amongst Furries, implies one of two things. Either there is something inherant within the Furry sociology that requires or encourages Internet usage or this is an example of a trend in human societal interraction: that -over time- more and more subcultures will communicate and interract in a virtual, computer forum. In my studies, I have seen evidence of both of these suppositions. Neither can be proved directly, although there is a high amount of liturature, artwork, announcements and communities aimed at Furry Fandom on the Internet.

Population and Residence
At a glance, Furry Fandom seems to be populated by college-educated individuals who generally fall into a young adult age range. It is from this basis that subsequent observations must proceed. The bulk of Furries seem to have entered the subculture between the ages of 18 and 26. In the initial interviews conducted with attendees at three Furry conventions, most of those who identified themselves as "members" of the community or "fans", had been participating in Furry activities for only five to six years.

The instance of individuals staying within the fandom seems fairly high as the length of time a Furry had been in the community seemed to rise as the age of the individual rises. In other words, the older Furries have been in the fandom the longest. In conjunction with the fact that the bulk of Furries tend to be fairly young, it appears that the subculture is undergoing a population growth, accepting new members at a rate higher than older members leave.

But where do these Furries live?

A large number of Furries report living in cities, fairly evenly distributed between the West and East Coasts of the United States and on the Eastern Coast of Canada. The largest numbers seemed to be centered in and around the states of California and New York with the province of Ontario producing similar numbers. Given the size of the cities in these areas and the ready availability to the Internet and other mass communication outlets, this is not surprising.

The spread of Furry Fandom appears to be primarily word-of-mouth. There are very few instances of mainstream media coverage (and even fewer of "positive" or "neutral" coverage) and even the convention gatherings are usually only advertised in forums already visited by Furries. Given the methods used to spread the word about Furry Fandom, the Internet (focusing on the World Wide Web, IRC and USEnet) seems to be the primary vector for new members to learn about the subculture. First exposure to Furry Fandom is often reported to be on the Internet. Other reported entry-points to the fandom are at 1.) General Science Fiction Conventions (with a Furry presence), 2.) Comic Book and Gaming Shops and 3.) Local College Campuses.

Education
Groups of Furry fans organize all over the United States and Canada, but nowhere as often as on college campuses. This appears to be due to two factors: age and education.

Again, as the median age of the fandom suggests, most of the new members come from an age group where they would be expected to be attending institutions of higher learning. Most of them discover the larger Furry community while being exposed to -for the first time in their lives- a broader spectrum of interests and beliefs at a college or university. The complimentary Internet accounts that most students in Canada and the United States receive as part of their tuition also enables networking with other Furries.

As it stands, the bulk of Furries seem to have at least a partial college education or are in college, presently. Most of them also report their current occupation as "Student". Given the age range of those answering the survey, it can be assumed that most Furries are either college students or participating in collegiate studies.

Philosophy and Theology
Similar to the reasons for why Furries tend to congregate on college campuses, they also seem to practice a wide variety of religious and philosophical beliefs. Many interviewed Furries reported that they became immersed in a wider range of beliefs and views when they first attended college. As a result, while we still see a large percentage of Christians in the subculture, we also see a very large number of NeoPagans and -even moreso- Agnostics and Atheists.

The youngest of the Furries tend towards the Agnostic end of the spectrum, while older Furries seem to have settled in their beliefs ... either embracing Atheism or some other religious system.

Sexuality and Relationships
A great deal of discussion has arisen around the topic of Furry sexuality. One common statement heard between Furries discussing the social dynamics of the fandom is that it appears that the estimated "10% of all humans are homosexual" is reversed. In fact, there have been many who have put forth the estimate that even more than 90% of Furries are gay.

Truth be told, there are many more homosexual members of the fandom than in general society. However, it is not -in my research- an exact reversal. In fact, between the three classifications of homosexual, bisexual and heterosexual (with "homosexual" encompassing both gay men and lesbians), homosexuality is still in the minority. However, surprisingly, bisexuality makes up an enormous 48% of all Furries responding to the survey.

This could be why there is the perception of large numbers of homosexuals in the fandom; that -in the eyes of many- bisexuals are lumped in with homosexuals for purposes of mental classification. While this is psychologically untrue, it is a perceptual statement that observers of the fandom seem to have made.

Also, there is a perception that Furries tend to be sexually overt and promiscuous. This, too, is a skewed observation. From what I've observed and researched, there is a large percentage of Furries who engage in open and non-monogamous relationships (roughly 30%). This, combined with other non-mainstream social norms, may have contributed to the myth of promiscuity (see "Social Interactions", below).

When the questions are directly asked of attendees at Furry gatherings, sexual encounters -while spoken of frequently- are far more rare than common. I think this is similar to the stereotypical view of the sex-addled male, bragging about his exploits to improve his social standing within a community. The reality of the situation, however, is that the indulgence is much less frequent than the perception of that indulgence.

Social Interactions
In many subcultures, hand gestures, body language and physical interaction can help identify individual members. Furry Fandom is no different. The most obvious characteristics of behavior amongst Furries -regardless of sexual orientation- are embraces and "skritches".

For definition purposes, a "skritch" is a friendly scratching or "combing" of ones fingers along another person's chest, shoulders, scalp or similar, non-sexual body area. Think of it as similar to skritching a cat behind the ears or a dog, on the sides of its head. While this can also be used in a sexual sense, the most common, open utilization of this greeting is no more sexualized than the shaking of hands. In fact, the mock (or actual) derivation of pleasure -through facial expressions or sounds made while being skritched- also seems to be part of the social exchange. In other words, the assumption of observed characteristics in the animals that the fans love (such as a dog or cat's expression/body language while being petted) is often adopted in brief while being skritched.

Why this is so wide spread is unclear. It should be worth noting that heterosexual males and females within Furry Fandom also participate in this social body language between members of the same sex without any apparent threat to their sexual identity as a heterosexual. This seems to fly in the face of common sense unless it is seen as non-sexual by the participants and -rather- an element of a larger societal norm.

The social variations for Furries may seem unusual from a generic, American viewpoint. However, from the position of a group of people who are already predisposed to enjoying anthropomorphic animals, other concepts such as homosexuality, hugging or fairly casual approaches towards physicality seem somewhat mundane and unimportant by comparison. Even the near-50% of Furries who are monogamous report a rather non-judgemental attitude towards the public behavior of Furry Fandom in general.

There is a small percentage of Furries who feel put off by public displays of affection or physical contact, but -by and large- this small group was determined to be statistically insignificant.

Finally, it should be noted, that in the larger venue of Science Fiction and Fantasy Fandom, similar social mores can be observed. While "skritches" seem to be fairly unique to the Furry subculture, embraces, open attitudes towards sexual orientation and being fairly easy going with public displays of affection are fairly common in most observed SF/F gatherings.

Demographics
Given that the subculture is so young and rather accepting of divergent views and beliefs, it is somewhat odd to see the relatively small percentage of racial minorities in Furry Fandom. This may be because of social pressures isolating members of various minority groups from joining the fandom, or there may be elements of the Furry subculture that appeals to Middle Class Caucasians.

Similarly, there are few women in the fandom, although they are better represented than all racial groups, combined.

Also probably due to the age of the average member of Furry Fandom, reported income is rather low. Fully a third of the members interviewed reported incomes lower than the poverty level. It should be noted that the bulk of these people were also attendees at conventions, where surveys and interviews were conducted. It has been observed, like in general Science Fiction/Fantasy Fandom, that Furries will tend to pool their resources in order to gather ... even going so far as to rent a large van and pack it full of a dozen people for a two-day trip to a distant city where a convention is taking place.

In Summation
Overall, Furries do have several characteristics that appear most magnified in group situations, such as social gatherings, parties or conventions. These characteristics are:

1. A higher tolerance (than within mainstream culture) for displays of affection or friendliness.
2. A higher tolerance for variety in sexual orientation and activity.
3. Furries tend to spend their resources on their interests as much as any particular group of people do, but sometimes have to pool resources in order to do so.

It is not clear why there is a disparate representation of various racial groups within the fandom as overt racism is rarely seen and acceptance of people of minority status seems as common as acceptance of people without regard for sexual orientation. It is as if -within this group of people already willing to accept the fanciful concept of an anthropomorphic animal- that race, religion and sexual orientation (as divisive factors) are simply too minor to attract any real attention.

Finally, Furries do seem to have characteristics in common with the larger subculture of Science Fiction and Fantasy Fandom. More study could be done linking the two, especially when there are claims that Furry is descended from the other.

Raw Data

The following were the results of the limited survey work I performed during the years 1997 and 1998. My conclusions (above) may not be the only interpretations of this data, and I am always interested in hearing from others.

TOTAL INTERNET SURVEYS:  35
TOTAL IN-PERSON SURVEYS:  325

Gender:
  Male:  (85%)
  Female:  (15%)

Age:
  16-17:  (5%)
  18-22:  (26%)
  23-28:  (26%)
  29-35:  (26%)
  36-40:  (10%)
  41-45:  (6%)
  46-50:  (1%)

Current Residence:
  United States:  (70%)
    Midwest:    (6%)
    East Coast:    (23%)
    West Coast:    (26%)
    Southern:    (15%)

  Canada:      (27%)
    Eastern Canada:  (20%)
    Central Canada:  (7%)
    Western Canada:  

  Europe:      (3%)

Current Residence City Size:
  Rural:            (1%)
  Small (-10,000):      (12%)
  Medium (10,000-100,000):  (26%)
  Large (100,000-250,000):  (34%)
  Very Large (250,000+):    (27%)
  Unknown:          (9%)

Race:
  Caucasian:        (94%)
  Native American:    (2%)
  Other:          (1%)
  African-American:    (2%)
  Hispanic:        (1%)

Marital Status:
  Single:                (42%)
  Married / Committed Relationship:  (30%)
  Dating Steadily:          (26%)
  Group Relationship:          (1%)
  Never Dated:            (1%)

Sexual Proclivity:
  Monogamous:            (51%)
  Polyamorous - practicing:    (29%)
  Polyamorous - non practicing:  (18%)
  No Answer:            (2%)

Sexual Orientation:
  Heterosexual:  (25%)
  Bisexual:    (48%)
  Homosexual:    (19%)
  Uncertain:    (8%)

Zoophile?:    (2%)
Plushophile?:  (less than 1%)

Religion:
  Christian, General:      (18%)
  Jewish:            (5%)
  NeoPagan:          (20%)
  Eastern Philosophy:      (1%)
  Non-Denominational Theist:  (5%)
  Agnostic/Undecided:      (33%)
  Atheist:          (10%)

Education:
  High School / GED:    (26%)
  Some College/Vo-Tech:  (42%)
  Bachelors Degree:    (20%)
  Masters Degree:      (9%)
  PhD:          (3%)

Occupation:
  Artistic:        (7%)
  Legal Profession:    (1%)
  Computer Professional:  (22%)
  Engineer/Technology:  (4%)
  Scientist/Researcher:  (2%)
  Management/Business:  (10%)
  Teacher/Education:    (3%)
  Service Industry:    (15%)
  Student:        (31%)
  Homemaker:        (2%)
  Unemployed:        (3%)

Income:
  below 10,000:    (35%)
  10,000 - 20,000:  (14%)
  20,000 - 30,000:  (13%)
  30,000 - 40,000:  (16%)
  40,000 - 50,000:  (7%)
  50,000 - 75,000:  (10%)
  75,000 - 100,000:  (5%)

Future Research

To date, these figures represent one of two academic studies done on the subject of the Furry subculture. It is by no means the definitive article. There are still many correlations to be verified and questions to be asked. More research and study is called for to unlock more of the fundamentals that make up the social group that makes up Furry culture.

In the future, I would very much like to expand my research and conduct far more intricate questions, going much farther abroad than the conventions and Internet for my data. Indeed, as soon as I can find a way to organize a study of greater detail, I plan on executing my plan and seeing just how much more I can uncover and figure out in regards to the subculture of Furry Fandom.

Thank you.

©2001, 2002 David J Rust

Addendums

After originally posting my findings in December of 2001, I received a very thoughtful hypothesis on the relationship between Furry Fans and Race. While my own research does not support or address this causality, future study may, indeed, validate this suggestion. One of the members of the group known as "The Pressed Furs" submitted the following observation:

"The possible reason why the general population of furry fans has a disproportionately high percentage of 'whites' is probably linked to the reason why we see the same in science-fiction and fantasy fandoms in general. Without ethnicity to act as a source of identity, assimilated 'whites', having lost their sense of ethnic heritage, tend towards identities found in common interests - especially in people who otherwise have difficulty finding community with their local populace. Essentially, there are fewer minorities in fandoms because minorities generally have a much stronger 'ethnic' identity over an 'interest' identity. There is no need for the community of others of similar interests when they have an 'ethnic' community identity. Those whose interest-identity supersedes their ethnic-identity generally are fairly dedicated fans."

I find this hypothesis fascinating and would like to see further study to test it. My thanks to the individuals who brought this to my attention.

July, 2002 - Following the publication of the above hypothesis, I received a very angry email decrying the statement and calling me a racist. I found this interesting and shared the occurrence with a variety of friends and colleges to gain their own insight. That sampling of opinions reflected a wide racial make-up and included requests for critique from men, women, heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuals, members of a variety of faiths, races, political persuasions and ideologies. It should be noted that some of their comments (below) presented potential problems with the suggested hypothesis, but none of them found it to be racist. As I said before, "I find this hypothesis fascinating and would like to see further study to test it."

On a personal note, if individuals take issue with my research and its findings, insult and derision is not the way to make their point. I am willing to accept, as I say elsewhere in this document, that I am capable of accepting my mistakes. If you, or anyone else who has read this study wishes to point out a potential flaw, it should be done in a professional manner.

Comments on charges of racism:

Comment #1: "I think the hypothesis [on reasons for the occurrence of race] has potential, and while I don't know much about furries (completely discounting that MTV thing, some of which made me twitchy), I think it can apply to SF fandom. The search for one's own minority/social group/interest group identity can be found in many places."

Comment #2: "[This theory] sounds like a pet theory by an armchair sociologist. It only takes one variable into account (ethnic identity). It ignores things like economic class, family life, and level of education. Consider the disproportionate number of people in Fandom that make $50,000+/year, have an IQ over 120, and have 'weird' families. These are all variables that he would need to consider alongside ethnic identity (some of which you mention in your survey results)."

Comment #3: Sounds like [the critic] has an axe to grind. I consider that [hypothesis] no more racist than my own (admittedly tenuous) theory that Caucasians are attracted to Paganism because of their own lack of an ethnic identity. Unfortunately, some people will accuse any statement that makes a value judgment or hypothesis based on race as being racist.

Comment #4: Read through the addendum... I don't find it racist, but I don't quite agree with the logic...

To say group x seems to be mostly Caucasian (or does not seem to have many of x, y, and z ethnic groups in it) is not a racist statement but an observation. The theory the person in the addendum is then a hypothesis to explain a simple oberservation. The hypothesis is a good one, might even have some basis in truth, but as you point out needs further study.

(side note... the only 'racist' thing about the addendum is the assumption that ethnic group identity always trumps other group identities. Not always true, per se after the ethnicity in question has been around for a generation or two. In other words, nothing is guaranteed.)

The reason I disagree is I would first like to see if the percentages are that different from 'real life'. In other words if 1 out 10 furries are purple (just to be annoyingly pc) then does it follow general population trends? If not there could be many other reasons... in the case of Science Fiction fandom one can point to educational level and class background. Better educated, more affluent families provided the time for someone to become a 'fan'. If your 2nd generation Somali, you have a few other concerns... not that this would stop you from becoming a fan, but language barrier, monetary level, expectations of parents, etc. I think most minority fans, you will find, are either 3rd or 4th generation and/or from families that were able to afford better education for the children.

Now if one considers that (IMO) furry fandom is a subset of Sci-Fi/comic book fandom ... then the percentage becomes even more skewed. Add to that any specific factors common to furry fans (the like of physical contact is one) and you limit the population even more.

Comment #5: Basically, the assertion [in the original addendum] seems to be positing two false binaries as its fundamental premises.

1. White people feel no ethnic connection to one another, and people of color feel such a connection with their race.
2. People seek group identity either on ethnic background or shared interests, but not both.

Comment #6: I don't think [the hypothesis] it racist at all. In my experience, social sciences forego political correctness in order to accurately portray their findings and theories. For some reason, especially among today's racially-sensitive society, that 'rough' treatment of terms to describe race could be misconstrued as racism when in fact it's not; it's using a single method of classification that doesn't nearly sound as harsh for the majority.

As far as black people in the fandom...I don't know if I would be inclined to agree with that particular statement. While there is a strong sense of ethnic identity among people of minority (though the black one is the only one I've hard experience with), in some cases furry thoughts and ideas even supersede that.

Snoop Doggy Dogg features morphing into a doberman in several of his videos, and the latest album covers actually feature a furry likeness of himself surrounded by semi-furry, big-breasted women. Sisqo has quite an affinity for dragons, even so far as to name both his albums "Unleash the Dragon" and "Return of the Dragon".

There are t-shirts of team mascots (the Chicago Bulls, Arkansas Razorbacks and Baltimore Ravens come to mind, in particular) and other things (personal symbols for 'pro' wrestlers Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock) that feature anthropomorphic, very muscled characters in various menacing poses, and for a while there was a chain of shirts that featured Looney Tunes in street clothing that was very very big.

There's a very *strong* undercurrent of furriness in the black community, actually; a good reason why there are so few black people actually *in* the furry fandom is perhaps a combination of under-exposure and homophobia.

As you noticed in your study, the primary method of communication and information-sharing in the fandom is the Internet; a lot of black people who aren't in college almost never have Internet access, and those that are in college don't gravitate towards exploring the broader areas of it. It's been my experience that a lot of college students (especially the historically black ones) only use the Internet for study and research, sports and music.

The few black people who have heard of the furry fandom, either through the Internet or through the recent spike in media coverage, probably reject it on the basis of it's strongly homosexual contingent or on the grounds that it isn't 'normal'. In the black community, anything that greatly deviates from the norm meets strong, and sometimes violent, resistance. A lot of black people may distance themselves from the fear of being looked at as gay or weird, or perhaps both.

Comment #7: [The hypothesis] was a smart argument and didn't point a finger at anything but the most general of specifics. I don't believe what he states is valid - history taught in school is decidedly 'white' and I've never been lost with my 'roots' - but this truth may be valid for him and he has smartly described it as such.

Comment #8: I can say that there's nothing racist about what [the sociology study] or this other person on your page [who suggested his hypothesis] said about race and furry fandom.. as a racially mixed person and a left wing anarchist intellectual, I think I know what I am talking about. It is however worth noting that some of the very best artists in this fandom are women, blacks, or Asians.

I found the observation that "interest" in whites can outweigh "ethic" culture... that's a very cool way to look at why things are the way they are. Let me also point out that many ethnic/poor/working class cultures tend to have sexually restrictive aspects and its very hard to be "out": openly gay/bi... this leads some people to actually think that being gay/bi is a "bourgeois" or "white" thing.. this is total bullshit. There are millions of gay Islamic Arabs... they are just in the closet, pretty much.

I do not like those polemical racial minorities who don't want "white" people to talk about race at all and accuse them of being racist if they do. While I feel that white racism is the most destructive, I think that excessive unwarranted attacks by minorities against "whites" that have little real value in helping things are pretty useless in themselves.. its a form of reverse-racism, I guess.