Last updated August 27, 1997.
"I am a feminist, and I define myself: Be yourself, because if you can get away with it, that is a feminist act-that's like the ultimate."
Liz Phair is talking on the phone, and it's evident from her music and her manner that she knows who she is and what she wants. Easygoing and at home with herself, she's also a polite conversationalist: "would you be really grossed out if I chewed salad on the phone?" she asks.
A 26-year-old from Chicago, Phair grabbed the spotlight last year as one of the brash, radical new female rockers on the scene-a nasty girl singer in the eyes of some. Her breakthrough album, _Exile in Guyville_ (matador records) was one of the most critically acclaimed releases of 1993, ranking her no.1 in the Village Voice "pazz and jop" poll, ahead of indid faves Nirvana and PJ Harvey.
Although EXILE is a throughly enjoyable, musical album, it was Phair's provocative lyrics that caused a media ruckus. With control over her material and songwriting, she articulates her desires and emotions without apology; it's her strength that people are drawn to. So it is with annoyance that she still has to answer for her infamous, ubiquitously quoted line, "I'll fuck you till your dick is blue."
"I'm over it." Phair says. "It's been a year now and that's all anyone has written about. You get THE netshell. Kind of like roaches: you keep putting our the Combat and they keep coming back" That part of the music scene she finds oppressive, especially to women-"very white and very straight," she observes. "I remember the whole rock crowd, feeling that the women there defined themselves by the men they went out with-the band-wife syndrome."
While EXILE speaks from a position of acceptance, independence, and entitlement, qualities that many claim to share, it's also gotten her into trouble with some of her lesbian friends. "i guess you want to know about my bisexual past huh?" she snickers, then settles down to explain. "I think I'm pretty much a heterosexual. My homosexuality verges from lifelong-i don't konw what you wnat to call it-FONDLINGNESS. To my mind that is very normal.
"that's like the unspoken taboo of heterosexual women. People are drawn to instincts somewhere; I think far more women are than anyone cares to admit. It's bizarre to me, it's retarded, the lines that have been drwan." she says. "When i was in my most lusty years at school, when I had a lot of friends that I would-like we say-blur the lines with, i had a lot of lesbian friends who would start bashing women that were bisexual. 'Don't ever go out with a woman [like that]' cause she'll just go back to a man!' It was almost like the mafia." she jokes.
Ultimately, Phair's goal is to be her own, outspoken woman. WIth her next album due out this fall, and with EXILE continuing to draw new fans, she sums up: "whatever my brand of feminism is, I want to be visible and actually marked, to be duly noted. I think every woman right now has that responsibility as a feminist. So that is my schtick."
-kristen kramer
kristen kramer is a New York musician and songwriter who has written for the bands French Twist and Ultra Vivid Scene
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 16:49:23 -0400 From: David Myers (dmyers@ocean.washington.edu) Taken from _the Stranger_, a Seattle-based independent weekly magazine April 12-18, 1995 -- Vol. 4 No. 28 INTERNET: stranger@cyberspace.com
We figured that Liz Phair had talked to enough rock journalists, but not to enough women-of-tomorrow. So we called Barry Wright, an elementary school teacher from the Valley School, who chose six lucky fourth- and fifth-graders. The girls got to listen to Liz Phair's music, read some articles about her and then talk to her on speakerphone. --Eds. MR WRIGHT [Age 31]: All right, all right, who's going to start? BRANDY [Age 10]: I am...Brandy...Are you really famous? LIZ PHAIR [Age 27]: I'm moderately famous. I'm somewhere-like, if you picture it as constellations in the sky-you know there's the Big Dipper and the Little Dipper. I'm sort of like that, what is that "W" one? Cassiopeia. Annie [Age 11]: Have you ever met anyone famous other than yourself? LP: I've met a ton of famous people. In fact, girls, listen up-I was just on my honeymoon in the Bahamas, and right on the beach next to us Elle MacPherson ws doing this photo shoot, and we were the only two people on the beach wearing like, orange bikinis. We were just dying, because we would watch her run up and down the beach-and like, I was picturing this as my job. That was all she had to do was, like, run up and down the beach swinging her hair. So...then I met Lenny Kravitz. Do you know who he is? GIRLS: [silence] LP: Do you know who Elle MacPherson is, though? GIRLS: Uhhh. MR. W: We need a bigger star! LP: A bigger star...Who's bigger? Those people are big! Okay, I met Bruce Springsteen. Have you heard of him? GIRLS: [Some have, some haven't] LP: Do you know Tori Amos? ISABEL (IZZY) [Age 10]: I think I've heard of her. LP: We're like this, we're best friends...No, I'm kidding. IZZY: Have you ever heard of the cartoon show called _Jem_? LP: No. IZZY: Well, it's about these three rock stars, it's kinda corny. They have pink and blue hair. LP: [Chuckles] IZZY: They sing songs and fight crime, stuff like that. They have a really nice life. They go around in limos, and there are these bad rock stars. BRANDY: Jem and the Holograms. IZZY: Jem and the Holograms, yeah. Well, they want their group to be bigger than Jem's, and she has this little song that she always sings, and it's really stupid. It's like Barbie. MR. W: Isabel, what were you going to ask her? IZZY: Well, how is your life, as a rock star, alike or different than Jem's? LP: Well, there are different people out there that are, like, sabotaging my career, I think maybe every time I step into a limo, maybe it's bombed or something. The only time you go in limos is, like, when you go to the Grammys. But the funny thing is, everyone thinks, like, you get this huge amount of stuff, but you really don't. You don't until you are really, really huge. So the thing about Jem...maybe Green Day rides around in limos. Frank Sinatra rides around in limos. IZZY: Do you fight crime? LP: [Laughing] Rock stars aren't known for fighting crime. In fact, they are known for breaking the law more often than not. IZZY: They're also known for committing suicide. LP: No, no, that's only a few very troubled people. There's a lot of people that don't. LAUREN [Age 11]: How much money do you get singing? LP: Depends on how big of a show you play, how many people come in, and how much money the club takes in at the door. If you're ever planning to become a rock star, make sure you have a good manager to find out how much the club people are making, because you are supposed to get a percentage of that. Does that make any sense? DASHA [Age 11]: Can I have some of the money that you make? LP: Sure you can! What are you going to do for me? MR W: She wants you to earn the money. how can you earn it? Can you sing back-up vocals or something? DASHA: No. LP: Well, I'm sorry, darling, but you know, there's no free lunch. ELIZABETH [Age 11]: Did you get teased at all when you were a kid? LP: Yeah, they used to call me "four eyes," but not that often-when I was a freshman in high school, I was put in all the smart classes. And I got in girl fights about boys and stuff like that. DASHA: Do you sing songs with only bad words in them? LP: [Laughs] Have you ever heard my album? DASHA: Yeah. LP: Okay then, but no, I don't. Well, it depends on what you think a bad word is. Doesn't it? It depends on whether you think talking about boys and stuff is bad. You know what I'm saying? There's some songs that obviously have dirty language. But there's a lot of songs that don't. It depends on, like-well, you guys haven't hit puberty yet. MR W: I have. DASHA: Me and Lauren, definitely! [Some arguing about who has and who hasn't.] LP: I don't think so! IZZY: What was one of your most embarrassing moments as a kid? LP: Um, gosh. Okay, my friend Lisa and I would go ride our bikes past this guy Chris Beacom's house all the time. We knew which window was his. We were standing out back, parked in the bushes, like, behind his house. He was actually standing behind us. He had come home from baseball practice and was listening to us talk about him and his bedroom and stuff and what he would be doing. That was very embarrassing. That was mortifying, in fact. LAUREN: What was the meanest thing you ever did to a Barbie? LP: [Laughs] I took Ken away. I don't know, let's see, I took their heads off. How did you know I had Barbies? That just goes assumed? IZZY: To tell you the truth, we're psychic. LP: Ha ha ha. You psychic? Okay then, what color shirt am I wearing? LAUREN: Um, purple. IZZY: We don't do that kind of stuff. LP: What kind of stuff do you do? IZZY: Barbie stuff. LP: Okay, which was my favorite Barbie? GIRLS: [Laughter] LAUREN: How about Long-Hair Barbie? LP: Which one is long-haired, you mean Malibu... LAUREN: The one with really, really long hair. LP: No, I liked the one that had the hair that went underneath-it had a flip, and she walked. You pressed a think in her back and she walked. It's probably a really old Barbie. DASHA: If you have kids, do you wan them to be rock stars? LP: I don't really care. I just want it to be a girl. MR W: Are you going to have kids now that you're married. LP: Yep. MR. W: Soon? LP: Yep. Ha ha ha. MR W: Real, real soon? LP: I don't know. No, I'm not pregnant. IZZY: Barry, that was kind of nosy! ANNIE: Do you want to know what our favorite groups are? LP: What are your favorite groups? IZZY: Boyz II Men. DASHA: Hazel. LP: You guys like Babyface? GIRLS: Yeah, yeah. LP: He was really nice at the Grammys. He played a really great song. LAUREN: Um, were you really at the Grammys? IZZY: Did you meet any actors like, um...Keanu Reeves? LP: No but my friend did. She said he was an airhead. BRANDY: Are you a feminist, and could you tell us what a feminist is? LP: I think I am probably a feminist, but the definition is an ever-changing one. It means basically that you promote the rights of women. I couldn't say that I'm, like, a perfect feminist. It's sort of like I am a feminist, but I don't do it all right. Of course, I was never an A-plus student, either. BRANDY: What kind of feminist are you? A trying...a B feminist, a B-plus feminist. I think of feminism as working to be certain that women are being treated fairly and given equal freedom in the eyes of the law. Does that make sense. GIRLS: Uhhh... LP: Girls get to do everything that boys get to do, and no one can treat you differently because you are girls. GIRLS: Yeah, yeah, yeah! IZZY: Sounds good. LP: Okay, that's it. LAUREN: What is the grossest thing you have ever seen? LP: The cover of a Big Black album called _Headache_. IZZY: Could you come to our school? GIRLS: Yeah! LP: Well, I'm only in Seattle for a day. I don't think I can come during that day. GIRLS: Auuuuuughhhhhh! LP: [Laughs] I'm sorry. DASHA: Can you sing to us? LP: Let's see...Oh I wish I were an Oscar Mayer wiener...Um...It was a one-eyed, one-horned flying purple people eater. My husband has a little kid and he sings on the answering machine. He sings my song "Double Dutch." He's like, "La la la la la la double dutch la la la la la." BRANDY: What is that song about, anyway? LP: "One-eyed, One-horned Flying Purple People Eater"? [Laughs] Oh, the one on Whip Smart? Actually, it's about deception. It's a feminist song, because it uses the idea of Rapunzel-that princess who was locked up in a castle. I'm sort of switching it around and locking up a boy in the castle instead of a girl. It's sort of like saying you should go through some of the experiences...like if I had a son, I would raise him to understand what it is like to be a girl. Do you know what I mean? IZZY: You mean you would braid his hair up and put it in bows? LP: [Laughs] I use a lot of fancy images just trying to say that if men knew what it was like to be a woman, the world would be a better place. MR W: Well, it's time to let you go. Girls? GIRLS: Thank you! LP: Bye!
Special thanks to dmayowel@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET for typing it all in.
'Never, Never in a million, fucking thousand, billion, trillion years," states the assertive, self-aware and self-assured Liz Pahir when asked if she ever thought she'd be a rock star. Settling her small-boned, 5'2" frame into a chair, she kicks her feet up, her brilliant blue eyes animated, her signature pouty lips slightly parted. Having graced the cover of almost every music biz magazine around and having succesfully hurdled those ever-present pop culture earmarks of fame -- the Rolling Stone interview and David Letterman -- the brash bard, with her easy self-possession, remains incredibly accessible and inviting.
'Keeping people's interest is of key importance,' admits Phair. And she has no trouble there. Original in attitude and brutal in honesty, her music is empowering and liberating. Always reflecting where she's been, her songs change as her world changes. But her themes maintain a universality: she is Everywoman in her songs, saying with a painful frankness what all women know, but some may be inhibited to acknowledge publicly -- or even to themselves. In _Exile in Guyville_, the song-by-song retort to The Stone's _Exile on Mainstreat_ it's the frustrated longing to be one of the boys in a boys' world. Phair plays the victim "Fuck and run, even when I was seventeen," the victor "I take full advantage, of every man I meet," and, prophetically, the very thing she becomes, "Weave my disgust into fame, and watch how fast they run to the flame." In _Whip Smart_, themes range from her relationship to future husband Staskauskas, "You fuck like a volcano, and you're everything to me," to the isolation she feels as a star, "Well look at me now, I'm frightening my friends."
Although always an artist, the Oberlin Visual arts major kept her songwriting strictly to herself until fairly recently. "Nobody knew in college. I was like a band wife. I went out with all the rock musicians, sat quietly in their rooms while they argued about re-issues, got drunk, and I had my fun. I moved to San Francisco right after I graduated from Oberlin, and I didn't do shit for about six months. We talked about all this stuff -- how we were going to open theater companies, have shows, all these high aspirations, all these Oberlin graduates. But we did nothing, and we ran through our savings. I returned home in the dead of winter. My friend Chris Brokaw, who plays in the band Come, saw me in San Francisco right before I left, and he heard me playing guitar. He forced me to play for him, and then said, 'Liz, make me a tape, just make me a tape of your stuff,' So I got home, and I had fucking nothing to do, I'm living with my parents, and it's the dead of winter in Chicago, and I made a tape. I sent it to Chris, and he just started making copies of it, and it got known around the country, Swear to God, though an underground tape network. The infamous _Girlysounds_ tapes, a virtual archive of fifty songs Phair admittedly dips into occasionally for direction and inspiration.
"When I called Matador, they had already heard of the tapes and were like, 'Sure, go ahead and record an album for us. Great'" Instant success. A fairy tale come true. "I was completely shocked, shocked that people felt my songs were surprising. They seemed really ordinary to me, they seemed really like camp ditties to me, like 'They sailed the ship Titanic, to sail the ocean blue.' You know, I write songs very ditty-like, and I just didn't think that there was anything so unusual about them. That they would get attention like that."
With her success, however, snow-balled a media career that overshadowed her music career. In almost every instance, coverage of her focused on the persona rather than the musician [first para of this one seemed no exception, i must say! -- snide editorial voice] "I was used to being an artist, making a product and then having that product be bombarded with either attention or criticism, but it wasn't me. I was really afraid of pursuing the career because, you, yourself, your life, the way you look is what is picked upon. I was a really private person, extroverted when I chose to be, but not the knid of person that would be wanting that kind of attention on me." Before the release of _Whipsmart_, Phair was courted by everybody, landing covers with _Vogue_, _Elle_, even a spread offer from _Playboy_. "For thirty seconds I was like 'that would be great' because I could do my own arranging. It's always been a fantasy of mine to be subversive in _Playboy_. The reason I didn't do it was because I realized there's no way to be subversive, no matter what you do. Look at Sandra Bernhardt's spread. Even if you're wacky, or weird, or do your own thing, you're still showing your body for men's pleasure. I just said, 'Fuck it, there's no way to make art out of this.' But I wanted to."
Scrutiny, pressure, a media backlash and Phair pulled out of the _Whip-Smart_ tour. "I canceled the tour that fall because I had done a shitload of press in the summer for the release of the album, and I felt increcibly emotionally fragile. People were picking at me and poking at me and manipulating me, and I was fighting with photographers who were trying to put me in skimpy outfits and shit, and I got so overwhelmed by the end of the summer I just kept thinking, 'What the fuck am I doing? I could go back to grad school or do something. I don't want to hate my job.' And I felt that if I went out with the guys and did the band thing that it would be forever known as me and these guys, and that it would be impossible to get away from them at that point. I'd either have to gout out with my band and do the rock thing and be a road Rock'n'Roll act, or I'd have to make a change so that I could try and love my job again."
She made a change. After the canceed tour and some time off, Phair regrouped and wnt back out on her own. She was solo-electric and venues sold out. Rumours flew: chronic stage-fright, exhaustion, falling-outs, label contracts. "I'd love to not have to tour. There's a lot of reasons why I do it, and it's not because anyone forces me to. It's because all those things in your life that you're scared to do, you feel inadequate at doing, that you avoid and that change your life. This is one of those things. Nobody knew I wrote songs until I was twenty-five or twenty-six because I was so terrified of having to get up there and show them off. It's something that makes me feel better about mmyself the more I conquer that feeling. I was so scared.
Regardless of roumers or her portrayal in the media, Phair continues to amass an adoring fan base. Today teenage girls and twentysomething men mouth the lyrics to her songs at all her shows, and, aware [of] her past history of stage fright, the crowd unabashadly roots for her song after song. Liz Phair homepages are springing up everywhere on the web, fromt he U.S. to Australia to Sweden. (Tap into http://www.armory.com/~fisheye/lpml.html) [URL corrected by the snide editorial voice, which warns you that this site is fairly high-bandwidth -- there's an 83K picture on the cited page.] as are newsgroups where a growing underground subculture of fans exchange bootlegs, buy and sell _Girlysounds_ recordings, post articles [agh! caught!! - S.E.V] interpret lyrics, request tickets, vote for favorite songs, sell T-shirts, etc. Her fans are loyal and dedicated, which comes as no surprise, given her approachability. On her solo-electric tour, she even extended invitations to her audience to join her on stage. "It makes me less nervous, the minute they get up there. It makes me fifty time less nervous to break that barrier between the audience and me."
On the eve of her new album, Phair at last seems relaxed, comfortable in her skin, dealing with her success. "Nothing scares me now. It used to scare me a lot because I didn't feel in control of myself. In the end, I like the fact that I can make music and get paid to do it. That's what my whole goal was."
Liz Phair's new album will be released at the beginning of summer in 1996. Serious work on it has already begun. "If you're going to do a different sound on you next album, it's a good idea to go back and figure out what you sound like, by yourself, because you forget. It's like anything. If you start creative writing, and then you go to school for ten years, and then you go back and read something that you wrote ten years before, and you think 'Wow there was something here that was really me, and now I sound like everybody else.' I'm trying to kind of come back to terms with who I really am, musically speking."
In past interviews she has mentioned that the first album is for "your people," the second is for "the people," and the third is for "everyone." So look forward to the "everyone" album. Expect the album to retain her Do-It-Yourself oriigns, her celver guitar work, her quirky brand of frothy folk op and her fresh, in-your-face, lyrics. Although Phair claims her marriage to Staskauskas hasn't changed her life at all -- "It's just a guy that I know that I want to sleep with for the rest of my life" -- her new alubm will probably explore married life and life in the limelight, and it is likely to include a reworking of a few gems from the _Girlysounds_ library and some of the new songs she's played on tour. Most notable of the latter is "Hurricane Cindy," a song about Cindy Crawford. "Of all the supermodels, and I have to say I do follow all that stuff because I grew up reading _Vogue_ and _Elle_, she's the one who I watch because I just intuitively know what she's thinking when she says what she says. I read an article, an interview with her in _Details,_ and I thought it was absolutely profound. Every time I read about Cindy, I rip out the page, and I'm like 'I understand!'"
Phair told _Out_ magazine: "Be yourself, because if you can get away with it, that is a feminist act -- that's like the ultimate." And, perhaps, that's what makes Liz Phair so appealing. She is herself, her ever-changing self, and makes no apologies for it.
fin.
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